Casino Backrooming
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“Backrooming” is a word that has come to denote the practice of detaining or harassing a player who is barred. Usually the casino will ask to see some form of identification and take the player’s picture. I was playing Three Card Poker at Fred’s casino, in a game where the dealer was flashing her hole-card in a way that was clearly visible from first base. I had arrived at this game at approximately 12:50 AM, and the dealer’s name was Jane, a female Asian dealer in her early 40’s.
If it was Indian be very careful. You can lose your rights on sovereign land and things can go south quickly.
I really don't understand why people think they lose their rights on Indian land. Indian sovereign rights end with federal and state laws.
I think there is no case too. If I had more experience about 86s and backrooming, I might be able to avoid this one from happening.
But I hope this thread can help the others. I am surprised that no one has shared their backroom stories in these three years.
Did they positively ID you and did they read you any type of trespass act?
About 30 minutes later I get a tap on the shoulder and this suit asks to talk yo me. No bigee, until I notice 2 security guys against the wall. He asks me if I had a 'problem' with a cocktail waitress. I gave him a puzzled look. ' Never volunteer information' my Dad always told me. He says someone knocked into the waitress, causing her to spill a tray full of drinks. I just shrugged my shoulders.
Then this big security guard decided to get in on the act. Gets in my face and says ' You fit her description '
I said ' Barney, go watch the tapes. ' turned my back and walked 3 steps back to BJ table. Waiting to be touched again and wondering
if the cops I knew when I worked at the Uereka were on duty. But nothing happened and I played for a little while longer, just because. Not saying I would have popped anybody if they touched me on the way back to the table, but you just never know what you will do sometimes till you do it.
Blackhawk jail is still next to the Eureka casino. Doubt I would have had to do anything more than post a bond. The Barney Fife syndrome is very prevalent among wanna-be cops.
Can only imagine the reports security writes praising their efforts at protecting the casino's money.
In my one and only backroom experience, which followed a foolish but very innocent cash-related move on my part, I was 'lured' to the back room by a guy in a suit who was carrying my cashout slips. I could have refused to follow him, but I'd have forfeited the money.
that looked like Louie DePalma's office on Taxi.
Glass and very small. My wife was terrified when
they started talking about jail and wanted to leave.
I said no way, lets see how far they go. Women..
Casino Backrooming
is more polite. Love to use that word on management in grievance meetings. Last time I remember using it was when
Denver office was closing and got this phone call from Phoenix 2nd level. Wanting to know why only 2 people in ALL OF
DENVER were working on tickets. This was at 2pm and we were to switch control to Phoenix at 3pm. Was Saturday, 2 guys
called in sick. I told him it was because there were only 2 guys workin in all of Denver and 1 was busy talking to a jerk, but no longer.
He was hollering something when I hung up. 10 minutes to 3 and my second level came in from home. She asked me why
I called him a jerk and I said because he was acting like one with that all of Denver remark. She wanted me to call him and
apologize. Yeah, like that was gonna happen.
When I came back to work Sunday half expected my key card to not let me in the testboard. That's how some managers tell
an employee he is no longer employed. Some places just walk you to your desk , watch you pack up your shit and walk you
out the door. Some just have the security guard do it.
Always bothered me that whenever there was a bomb threat, it was the custodians ( lowest paid employees ) who were
to walk thru building looking for suspicious packages.
We checked out and haven't been back.
EvenBob, I don't want to make light of your experience because it was probably very unpleasant to see your innocent wife be falsely accused. But look on the bright side: Circus Circus is an absolute shithole, so at least it's not much of a sacrifice to never set foot in that dreadful place for as long as you live. I'd be genuinely frustrated if I had to avoid Bellagio or Wynn forever, but a Circus Circus boycott would be easy (and amusing).
EvenBob, I don't want to make light of your experience because it was probably very unpleasant .
I rather enjoyed it, actually. I wanted to see how
far they would go. I had always heard about
backrooming. They acted just like cops on TV,
trying 15 times to get you to change your story.They thought we were con artists, so we were
guilty in their minds. They were never friendly,
never apologetic. It was just like you see on TV
when people get arrested and grilled.
IS CARD COUNTING LEGAL?
Casino Backrooming
By Henry Tamburin
This is one of the most often asked questions asked to me by casino players. But before I give the answer, let me briefly explain what card counting is all about for readers who may not be familiar with it.
Card counting is a system that allows players to keep track of certain cards played. You are not memorizing every card like the Rainman; rather you count only certain cards. The way you count cards is this way. You assign a tag to specific cards like a +1 for small cards like 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 and –1 for the high cards like 10, picture cards and aces. Then it’s just a matter of counting the tags of each of these cards as they are played. For example if player #1 has a 6, 5 and decides to double down and draws a queen the count of her hand would be +1 (if you add the tags of each card in her hand you arrive at the sum of +1). Card counters look at each card and continue the process of adding the tags to arrive at a sum that is known as the running count.
The basic concept behind card counting is this – high cards tend to favor the player and small cards favor the dealer. Why? If there is a large concentration of high cards in the undealt cards there is a higher chance of getting a blackjack which favors the player because of the 3 to 2 payout. Also, players will most likely to draw a high card when the undealt cards are rich in high cards. If there are a lot of small cards left, the dealer is more likely going to draw to a standing hand and beat the players. So as a general rule, if the undealt cards are rich in large cards, this is a player favorable situation. Likewise, if the undealt cards are rich in small cards, the edge swings to the dealer.
The correlation between the running count and the condition of the undealt cards is as follows. When a card counter has a positive running, this means there was an excess of small cards over large cards played therefore the reverse has to be true in the undealt cards (i.e. in a positive running count the undealt cards contain more large cards). With a negative running count, the opposite is true; namely the undealt cards are rich in small cards.
The bottom line is this. When a card counter has a positive running count, the edge is in his favor and therefore he increases the amount of his wager. When the running count is negative the dealer has the edge and the counter bets the minimum amount. By only making large bets when the counter has the advantage (i.e. when the running count is positive) and small bets when he doesn’t have the better of it, the counter gains the upper hand over the casino.
The issue of the legality of card counting is a complicated one. Historically most of the known cases have come from Nevada and Atlantic City. Most other gaming jurisdictions are still grappling with this issue. Since I am not a lawyer, I will say up front much of the response you are about to read was gleaned from the excellent book, Blackjack and the Law by I. Nelson Rose and Robert Loeb. I highly recommend it.
“Is blackjack card counting illegal”?
As long as a card counter is only using his brains to decide how to play his hand, then the act of card counting is not illegal.
“How do casinos get away with excluding card counters from playing blackjack”? “Isn’t this discrimination”?
The Nevada courts have allowed casinos to exclude card counters because technically they are private property, and under the ancient common law right a property owner could kick-off his property anyone for any reason, or even without a reason. Many players and lawyers believe that barring skillful players from playing blackjack is an unconstitutional form of discrimination. However, the Supreme Court prohibits discrimination only against persons who are members of “suspect classifications” based on race, creed, sex, national origin, age, or physical disability (i.e. card counters are not listed in the “suspect classifications”). Therefore, until a law is passed or blackjack players bring a challenge, casinos will continue the practice of barring card counters.
In Atlantic City casinos, the late Ken Uston (blackjack author and professional card counter), won the right in the NJ courts for card counters to count cards there. Essentially the NJ Supreme Court told the AC casinos that they could not bar card counters unless the NJ Casino Control Commission issued a rule saying counters could be barred. So far they have not made this ruling, however, they have allowed the casinos to make the game of blackjack much harder for counters to beat.
“Can the casinos legally ‘backroom” a card counter”?
“Backrooming” is a word that has come to denote the practice of detaining or harassing a player who is barred. Usually the casino will ask to see some form of identification and take the player’s picture. Under common law and the laws of most states, it is illegal for a business establishment to detain a person, unless the customer has committed a crime and the business is holding the person while awaiting the arrival of police. Therefore, when a casino security agent asks if a player will accompany him to the office, the player has the right to refuse, unless he is being held for a crime. In Nevada, a casino has the right to question and detain any person suspected of cheating. New Jersey, however, made the point that card counting is not a crime and therefore it is not permissible for a casino to detain and question a person suspected of being a card counter. The casino also does not have the right to demand identification because it is ejecting someone for card counting. A player should not have to provide his name upon request of the casino, but it could conceivably be considered obstruction of justice to refuse to provide one’s name upon the request of the police. A player also cannot be forced to pose for a photograph.
If the casino is barring you:
- Don’t admit that you are a card counter.
- Don’t wait long enough for your picture to taken.
- Don’t start an argument, or make a loud fuss.
- Don’t go to a bar and have a drink.
- Don’t show your identification
- Don’t touch any casino employee.
“Can a casino have a card counter arrested for trespassing if he returns and plays blackjack in a casino in which he was previously barred from playing”?
Most states have trespassing statutes that makes it a misdemeanor for a person to remain on or return to a property after receiving notice from the owner that the person is not allowed on the premises. Most casinos in barring a card counting will tell them “not to return” however it is not usually followed by arrest and prosecution if they do return.
One final tip based on my playing experiences. The best way to avoid getting barred is to play for short periods of time (no more than 1 hour), increase your bets incrementally by parlaying your wins, and give the appearance that you are just another gambler out for a good time. Your best source for learning how to get away with getting the money is the book Burning the Tables in Las Vegas by Ian Andersen. Its must reading for all “wannabe” card counters.